The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast

Hello and welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices podcast. I'm your host, Paul Cruz, and I'm thrilled to have you join us on this journey of exploration, advocacy and celebration of neurodiversity.

I'm Gino Akbari, your co host. Together, we'll have meaningful conversations, share inspiring stories and challenge misconceptions about neurodiversity.

This podcast is for everyone, whether you're We

are so excited to have you with us as we celebrate the beauty of diverse minds and work toward a more inclusive future.

We're thrilled to be joined by not one, but two incredible guests from the Coast Mental Health Brain Training Team. A group that is changing lives through a unique program rooted in cognitive remediation, neuro plasticity, and hope based recovery. Together, we'll explore what cognitive remediation really means and how it helps people overcome challenges with attention, memory, and executive function. The empowering role of compensatory strategies, simple yet life changing tools like mental retracing or linking tasks. How group based learning builds not just skills but a true sense of connection and community.

And we'll dive into creative, stigma smashing initiatives like art pop ups and the future of peer led support. Let's get into it. Please welcome to the show Janelle Peters and Amy Bujak from the Coast Mental Health's Brain Training Team. Let's start with a quick round of introductions. Can each of you tell us your name, your role on the Brain Training Team, and what first brought you to this kind of work?

My name's Amy. My role on the brain training team is a social worker. And what brought me to the work was just seemed like a really cool opportunity that had come up through Coast Mental Health. I'd been working for them for quite a few years at that point. And the idea behind cognitive remediation, I thought was really cool and to be able to learn more about that and to have a different opportunity in facilitating groups and things like that was something that I just kind of jumped on.

Hi, I'm Janelle. I'm mental health counselor within the Brain Training Program. And similarly to Amy, I got into the work through post mental health. I was working as a practicum student and I met Amy and Melody and discovered more about cognitive remediation and I thought it was a very cool opportunity to kind of work on things that we don't necessarily see treatments for in typical psychosocial rehabilitation. So it was a pretty cool opportunity.

What misconceptions do people usually have about cognitive remediation?

So one of the misconceptions is that people might think that it's only for people with either a brain injury or certain diagnoses, and that it's a very clinical kind of structured intervention. But cognitive remediation, the way we approach it is a very kind of hands on, everyone can use it approach where it's everybody can benefit from cognitive remediation. I myself have benefited since joining the program. I found that like things like my memory, my attention, my ability to problem solve have all improved. So I think everyone can benefit from CR is another way to kind of shorten version of it.

And it's not as the way we do it. It's not as clinical in that way.

Yeah. Like we kind of talk about it and use examples like we've probably, or most of us have all maybe misplaced our keys at some point in our life or gone to the grocery store for that one item. You leave the store without that item. Right? So there's strategies and skills that we can use to help us in those moments.

Right? Like, maybe we didn't sleep well the night before. Maybe we woke up late and we're, like, not having time to, like, eat and do what we need to do, and we're just running out the door. Right? So we're a little bit more scattered.

So how do we function in those moments, like at our best and like, that's where CRM brain training can come in as well. Not just if you've had like a specific diagnosis.

Could you walk us through how you would address specific areas like attention, memory, and executive functioning during sessions?

Yeah. So we break, we break the cognitive functions down and we do modules where there's about four or five sessions for each of those kind of brain areas or cognitive functions. And then we'll work through each with different strategies based on kind of what will help us pay attention. And then we will play games around attention and then bridge those strategies that we use in the games into real life. So we kind of work through it one by one because we, the value of repetition is very important.

Being able to kind of repeat it, try it again, keep trying it, and then ingraining that in and kind of building that neural pathway with all

of the different strategies they learn. Yeah. The sessions within each of the like modalities kind of build on each other, but you don't necessarily have had to attend each session to get the concept or the idea of the strategies that are being taught.

Which of these areas do participants tend to struggle with most?

That's a, yeah, that's an interesting one because I think there is no, the part that is so cool about the program is that everyone is so different. So there's so many different ways that people's brains operate and it really depends person to person. One thing we do hear a lot is like, I have a bad memory. That might be a phrase that we hear quite often in the group. And it's a really cool opportunity when we hear that to shift the focus from I have a bad memory or I don't have memory from something we have to something we do.

So we change it to thinking about it as an action. Cause when you think of memory as an action, then you can build in those strategies and you can build in tools to make that action easier or to strengthen that action. But that is one we hear quite a bit of, and it's nice to be able to see people shift from thinking that they just have a bad memory and they're stuck that way to thinking like, oh, it's an action I can change the way I do it.

Yeah. Would say like everybody's different and the areas that they might find challenging or struggle with a little bit more or have lots of strengths in are going to depend on what their life experiences have been as well as any challenges that they face themselves or have been dealing with. Like, different parts of the brain might have been, like, damaged in, say, like traumatic brain injuries. So everybody's gonna be dealing with something different. Or if somebody has depression, even though they might be on the same medications, the way that their brain chemistry works is going to impact them differently.

Are there any cognitive functions that improve more quickly than others?

I would say like, again, it just is very unique to each person. So not necessarily any specific function itself. It just depends on the person. So it's very unique to each person, which is kind of the cool thing and why we really enjoy it because it is the ability to meet people where they're at, and each person might be at somewhere else. Like they're just in a different space in their life, the experiences they've been through, what challenges they're facing.

So to be able to meet each person where they're at is a really cool concept and not necessarily something that every sort of therapy modality offers.

That gives us a solid picture of the focus areas, but what does this look like outside the sessions? How do participants apply what they learn in daily life? So could you share some practical examples of the compensatory strategies you teach, like mental retracing or linking tasks and how participants apply them in daily life?

Yeah. So linking tasks is one of the strategies we use where it helps with planning. Also remembering to take the remembering things. So linking tasks is about doing things together so that you always associate the tasks with each other. And we'll kind of discuss the strategy usually, and then talk about specifics every time in group.

We have a group discussion about specifically how would you use this and what would it be helpful for you? Oftentimes like one example is taking medication on time or remembering to take our medication. Linking tasks is really helpful for that. People will say, I take my coffee every morning. I have my breakfast every morning.

I'll link my medication with that. Even things like going to the store, if you have to simplify your daily routine, if I'm going to the store, I'll also take the garbage out and check the mail at the same time. And so we'll kind of discuss that at the end of group usually and during group discussion.

And I would say like automatic places kind of plays into that as well. So like if you don't see your medication, how are you going to remember to take it? So also placing it in a location that is easily accessible and visible so that you do have it, like, with your breakfast or placing the garbage by the front door so that you have to, like, step over it when you're leaving to go to the store. Right? So, like, always putting things kind of like back in a home as well can help with that task.

Things like mental retracing can be really helpful because, say, we've misplaced an item going back through, okay, what did I last do? Where was I last? What might I have done with it? And kind of visually being able to do that in our minds instead of having to go back to each place every time.

It sounds so simple and practical and logical, but yet none of us know these things. At least I don't. So it's so good to hear that you guys run a program that actually either reminds you or teaches you a step by step way to do these things.

That's a good point. The word reminds you because sometimes, or even just recognizing that these are things we might already do, but without the name of, oh, this is an automatic place. Like we might all put our remote in the same place every day, or do these things in different ways, but when we talk about it as a strategy, and label it as a strategy, then we can think of, oh, what I else use this for in life? Like how else can I apply this strategy to make my life simpler? Which is all that we're trying to do.

A lot of brain training is reducing overwhelm and kind of making life day to day life less stressful, reducing stressors and making it simpler for ourselves because there's a lot going on and there's a lot to remember. There's a lot to pay attention to.

Yeah. And even like things like how do you schedule things? Right? We might sort of already do that, but depending on where someone's like cognition might be at, and we also probably take for granted how much cognitive effort actually goes into that. So if you have an appointment that you have to get to and you've written that down, part of the scheduling is also remembering, okay, this is the time my appointment's at.

How am I getting there? How much time do I need to get there? Do I need to account for like accidents on the road or with transit extra travel time? What's the parking situation like? Do I need to pay for parking before I get in there?

If the appointment is months in advance, do I need to set reminders to make sure that I remember to go to the appointment when it comes up? Like there's a little bit more cognitive effort that goes into it than we sort of realize it.

Most examples really show how accessible and practical these tools can be but I imagine not every strategy works for everyone. How do you personalize that? How do you tailor strategies to different cognitive strengths and challenges? Do you use any assessments or participant feedback to personalize the support? And how do you support individuals who may be resistant or unsure of their abilities?

That's a good question. Yeah, it is very true. And we do definitely like no strategy is going to work for everyone and everyone kind of takes different things from all of our sessions. Everybody is different. And so then the strategies they use are going to be different.

And the one of the ways we personalize it is by offering kind of a wide variety of strategies based on different strengths. So we say these are all the strategies and then people discuss what has previously worked for them or what isn't working for them. And a lot of the personalization comes through conversations and feedback of trying it out, seeing if it worked. We do have an assessment and we do tend to start off the programs with that, but our groups are a very open format of like drop in format. So it makes it harder to have that standardized piece, but we have really valued like those open discussions of what's working, what's not, because often people will learn from each other in those as well.

Because people will see, oh, that didn't work for you. What did you do differently? What did you do instead? And then they say, I tried this. And so it's a lot of peer to peer learning as well.

Yeah. And we use a few different, types of, I guess, like media would be the right word. So like using like videos so that can be a form of like role playing so that people can actually like watch it in action. If there's like a video that's applicable for that as well as some activities or even the games sometimes, right? Like if we're talking about looking at things from like a different point of view and taking a different perspective, If you have, like, a physical, like, board game or handheld game, like, we use the example with the game rush hour, which is kind of, square parking lot, and you're trying to get a car out of the parking lot, but you have to move all the other little pieces around to be able to do that.

Literally just shifting the board to look at it from a different perspective. Or do you need to walk away and come back later with a fresh set of eyes so that maybe you've been staring at it too long? All kinds of different problems in our lives, sometimes we need to take that step back, walk away from it, and then come back with whether we've slept on it overnight. We've maybe asked somebody else for help, all those kinds of things. So providing different ways for people to see that in action is a tool that we definitely utilize a lot and like feedback, especially from other people as to like what is working for you in the group.

What would you like to see more of? Do we want to spend more time talking about this or working on this or have another activity to put this into action and things like that?

As well with, with the games, it's a cool opportunity to kind of reflect strengths back to the clients. Like I see, you know, you say, oh, I see that you did this in order to, kind of get through that game or like what worked for you in the game. And then they will see for themselves, like was able to do that through. I was able to pay attention, for example, by using my fidget toy, or I was actually able to memorize by making an acronym in my head. So then that's where we'll see the strength and then we can use the strength to apply and build strategies based off people's different strengths.

And same thing with, I wanted to address the part where you said, resist. How do we handle, participants who may be resistant or worry about their abilities or kind of shut down at the concept of trying this out or the strategies out? And I feel like the brain training program has a really cool approach to that, where we don't force people or rush people through the process of believing in themselves or believing in their brain abilities, because it's a different process for everyone. And so we kind of allow conversations about those self doubts. We kind of facilitate that and we sit with people through maybe the uncomfortable feeling of addressing some of their fears or doubts about themselves.

And then through that, people tend to see for themselves at their own pace that, oh, hey, I can do this. And it's okay for me to try something and then it not work and I can try it again. So it's really a patient being with the person through this journey of like rewiring our brain and re understanding the way our brain works.

Yeah. And just to kind of go off of that as well is like also as facilitators going into it, being flexible as well. So, like, if the conversation and the group kinda goes in a different direction than what we had gone in with the plan of, going with that, see where that takes us. Do we need to kind of redirect and bring it back, or are we gonna just completely go in that other direction? Because that's what the majority of the group would like to do.

And just allowing that to also happen, like, naturally to like meet people where they're at that day. Right? We don't have to follow this set plan of what we had. What does the group need? What does the group want?

Or that individual if we're doing like a one on one, right? What do they need in that moment? And also being able to provide the opportunity for people to just observe and listen. Right. Cause a lot of people will kind of gain a lot from like that sort of like osmosis, right?

Like they're just absorbing the information and then they can kind of take that at their own pace. And we found that even allowing people to do that, eventually they start actively participating in the group as well.

So there is a real emphasis on meeting people where they're at. Let's shift gears and look at what happens when this kind of work starts to take root. What kinds of personal transformations have you seen in participants as a result of brain training? And are there specific behaviors or attitudes that shift as people go through the program? Has anyone ever surprised you with the changes they made?

Yeah. The shifts in the beliefs and their attitudes is part of like one of the most impactful parts I think that we see, and it's a common shift of, especially in confidence and in belief about themselves and their ability to change and grow. A lot of the time we see initial phrases like my brain is broken is one that is hard to hear. It's, it's something that a lot of people feel because you've grown up in a system that maybe doesn't accommodate for your different ways of thinking or different ways of perceiving things. And we see a shift from my brain is broken to, I can actually change the way I'm thinking.

I can also change the strategies to help me function in these different environments. And so we see this big boost of confidence that if you try things and you make mistakes, it doesn't mean it's a failure. It means you're actually challenging your brain and growing new neural connections. So we see a very big growth mindset being grown of believing that if I try hard enough or if I do things repeatedly, think growth will happen. And a belief in ourselves and our ability to kind of commit to things as well and change the way we think.

Yeah, definitely. It's huge. I would say like people's like core beliefs about themselves and their understanding of way the world works and things like that, it would be a huge thing that people's attitudes and actions, behaviors kind of alter as well. Because if we're, say, experiencing a lot of anxiety, so we're tending to isolate. And now we've gained a little bit more confidence in our ability to overcome that.

So anxiety is typically we underestimate our ability to cope and overestimate the threat or danger that might be there. And that threat could be, I'm going to fail or I'm going to be rejected. So in the group environment, people are learning that it's okay to make mistakes. It's nothing's going to be perfect, right? Nobody's perfect.

And especially if you're just learning something for the first time, why would you be perfect at it? Right. So that in and of itself helps people then realize, okay, I can overcome this. And like the confidence that people gain through that and in their ability to cope with situations, taking that into like how they face the world around them and their belief about the world around them and how they show up in the world. It's pretty amazing to see the changes.

Yeah. One of a quote that we, one of the clients said to us was, I feel hopeful and strong right now. Like I have the ability to shape my mind, kind of like I can grow around my trauma, grow from it and grow above it. And you hear that sentiment and you see that like these people are believing in their abilities, but also that self awareness of like, this is understand myself and I can change things about my environment. I can kind of have that agency and that autonomy over my circumstances.

And I think that's a really cool part of what we see.

It seems like even recognizing existing strategies, things people were already doing can be a turning point. What's the emotional impact of naming validating something someone already does? And how do you help people recognize and celebrate these small victories?

Yeah. That's that's a really good question. So I know even for myself, it's like if we're doing something and we just kind of do it, but don't necessarily think of it as, like, a skill, it's just something you do because you do it. Being able to, like, identify it and label it as this is a strategy, this is a skill can be really empowering in people realizing they're more than they think they're more capable of more than they think. Right?

So that sense of empowerment can then filter into the other aspects of their life and how they're showing up for themselves and for other people, for the people around them, and they're in different environments. Yeah.

And I think we often will over focus as humans, especially just on the negative and what are we doing wrong? What have I done wrong today? Or what have I not done? And this is a Brain training is a cool opportunity to refocus on what have I done right? And what am I doing right?

How am I supporting myself? And when we can label something someone's already doing as like a skill that's been trying, that is being taught and it's a research based kind of strategy, not only does it make kind of recognize that strength there, but it also normalizes the experience that we all need support. We all need different strategies to manage life. It's very overwhelming at times. So kind of seeing that this is a strategy that you've come up with on your own to manage life, and this is something that you've created and been creative about, I think it's a cool way to build that self awareness and that confidence.

Yeah.

And moments like that can reshape someone's entire self perception. And speaking of reshaping, I wanted to explore how the group format influences the process. In what ways does the group format foster community, belonging, and mutual learning? What's something you've seen happen in group that couldn't have happened one in one?

I would say it like there's the normalizing and validating from like a peer level as the facilitator. Unfortunately, there's inherently that sort of authority figure power over as much as we try to de center that or minimize that as much as we can, it's just sort of inherently there. So being able to have that validation and that normalization from a peer level can really be helpful in people understanding like they're not alone in what they're going through and that there are ways to overcome some of the struggles and the challenges that they might be experiencing. Just a huge part of it.

Yeah. The conversations, I feel it breaks a lot of the shame down of, you know, I feel shameful because I find this thing hard or I find it hard to remember to do my laundry every Sunday. I find it very hard to do that. And it's taking away that shame associated with some of these things. And then being able to discuss as a group and say, oh, that really, yeah, that's so hard for me.

What do you do? One of the quotes from our clients was about the social element of groups. He said socializing with people that other people feel the same way. The one thing I learned that I wasn't the only one, it made me feel that I could do it because, you know, six, seven other people discussed the same thing. They must be going through that same thing.

So it made me feel that's not just me. And I kind of go with the motto like self help comes from helping others. So when I can do that here, it makes me feel good. And I, I really love that self help comes from helping others piece of being able to share what works for you and help someone else.

That's a way of creating a safe environment. It's in numbers.

Yeah. Yeah. Hearing a bunch of people experience the same thing as you is it can be a really powerful experience, I think.

Yeah. And it kind of ties back into like the previous question too of like celebrating, like, people's wins and those small successes that they start to see and having, like, a whole group of people be able to do that together and celebrate each other can be really empowering as well. So that like motivation continues to build and then people have more, even more successes. Yeah. The teamwork can be

a really, really cool thing in great brain training because we're all working towards a common goal, like whether it's through Wordle or one of our brain games, everyone working together, to share that celebration can be super connecting and community building and people recognizing each other's strengths. A lot of the time participants will say, Hey, that was so good. How did you come up with that? They'll hold each other accountable as well for lots of things. Like I've had participants kind of say, Oh, how's it going with your trying to sleep better?

Have you been able to sleep better? So we kind of all hold each other accountable. And I would say the other really cool part about group format is you hear so many different perspectives when you're in a group. You're hearing people who have a very different way of thinking than you do. So kind of sharing those different perspectives and hearing someone who might have very different life experiences to you, you can learn so much in a safe place like this, where there is that open discussion and kind of vulnerable sharing of all of our strengths and all the things we're working through.

Yeah. As well as like resource sharing. Like, what have you found that works for you at school? Maybe I'll try that too. Right.

So like resources that people might not have been aware of where you're in a one on one, you probably won't get the as much variety of that because we might be limited in our knowledge of the resources that are out there and available.

And sorry, one more thing. I just keep thinking, because I think social, the social connection in the community is such a big part because as humans, we are social creatures, but we need that community element and the social interaction can be hard at times, like finding spaces where you can connect to people and make friends or make those connections. And even with social anxiety, it's being in a group format is a great way to practice these social skills in a setting that feels safe as well. And I've had clients who have said, I I've noticed my teamwork's gotten better because it can be frustrating to working in a team when someone's not, you know, like the whole dynamics, but noticing those ability to regulate my anger or my frustration and then communicate effectively. It's like, we're seeing the skills being practiced in group as well outside of group in that way.

That sense of belonging can be so healing. And you're planning to take that even further by bringing in peer support workers, right? You're exploring integrating peer support workers into the program. How might this enhance the experience for participants? And what would a peer support worker be able to offer that staff, Kent?

And do any of your current facilitators have lived experience they draw from?

Yeah. So, like, an area where we see significant potential for enrichment of the program is the addition of peer support. Because, again, like with the staff, unfortunately, there is inherently that sort of power dynamic. Right? That you're a staff member, you're not necessarily a participant.

Right? So it can help minimize that a lot more. And from, like, a peer level, you can lead with your experience. Whereas like the staff self disclosure is a tool to be used for sure, but it's not something that we're leading with. Right?

So we use it and we share our experiences and cognitive remediation in general really does encourage that facilitators actually share their experiences with the strategies, with the tools, but it's just sort of on a different level.

Yeah. We, we really try to kind of break down the power imbalance between like a therapist and a client or whatever that might be, because we are all human. We're all working through different things. And I often will share my own lived experience in groups because it is so valuable, our lived experience. A lot of the time we learn most from that.

Everybody can learn so much from having going through things. More than a lot of the time, what we learn in textbooks, how does this apply to my life? And what did I learn from these different experiences? And peer support is just a great avenue to kind of solidify how much we value that lived experience piece because it's so, we see it being so impactful. So we would love to kind of have that on our team as well at that at some point in the future, hopefully.

So it's not just about skill building, it's about shared experience and trust. Another way you've fostered that is through your creative initiatives. The Smash the Stigma art pop ups are powerful visual metaphors. What inspired this initiative and how have participants responded to it? What's a moment from one of these events that really stayed with you and how do participants describe the emotional impact of that activity?

Yeah. So the Smash the Stigma activity was an art pop up we did at one program, and then it's kind of grown into a bigger project where essentially to kind of summarize what we, what the activity is, is that participants will write down words on a big canvas. We've got a huge canvas and everyone's writing words that they've been labeled or that the community has been called things that they don't feel represent them. And they want to kind of smash the power away from those words. So it might be like lazy, lost cause, dramatic, anything that people want to rip the power from.

Yeah. Manipulative is one that comes up quite a bit. The sad and unfortunate part is that a lot of the times, this part of the project comes super easily to people. Like, they've heard so many negative things about themselves, about the community that they're a part of.

Yeah. It was, it was an interesting experience because that was the easy part. And then the next parts you'd expect to be more light, but a lot of the time reflecting positive things about ourselves can be kind of uncomfortable when we've spent so long hearing these words or saying these words to them ourselves. So essentially what we did was write those words down, fill up paint balloons or water balloons with paint, and then throw the water balloons at the canvas altogether. And then we would cover the paint with new kind of reaffirming words for what do we believe about ourselves or what are some of the things that we value and our community's beliefs and things that represent us.

And I think that it was a really, the shared experience of processing those each different step. It was kind of that community building that we really love to see. One word that came up a lot was relief. We had some one client said, I feel three pounds lighter. It's like a physical relief because sometimes it's scary to address these things we're called in the language, it's harmful and it's hurtful.

And then doing it alone, it can feel scary. But as a community, we're all doing it together. And so we're kind of holding that space together and to experience those collective emotions and anger and the sadness, but then replacing that with that relief and connection.

Yeah. It's been interesting because people have shared too that they haven't necessarily felt that they've been provided the opportunities or the space in a safe space to be able to actually address how these stigmas impact them and affect them. And people sharing like how much emotional release and how empowering it was to feel like they were taking back their identity and like smashing away the stigma by being able to like throw the paint balloon. Like some people really toss that balloon and it is like really cathartic and really healing.

Yeah. It was like a, it was such a mix of emotions to doing it, which was really cool because it was laughter. There was crying. There was really important discussions happening throughout the whole process. One client said, these words, we know they exist and we're called them constantly, but we never acknowledge it or how it feels.

It doesn't feel safe to do it when we're alone, but when we do it as a group, it feels like a relief. And the reason we did this was to kind of spark those important conversations and start the conversation of confronting what are the harmful beliefs that people have around mental illness, addictions, and homelessness, and how can we change the way we as a collective community discuss and view that because our language really matters.

Yeah. Was, it's been cool too, because in some of the programs that we've gone to and we've kind of started with this initiative and that's how they got to know us through that. And then that actually led to them wanting to check out like the brain training program and actually participating in it that way. So it's been kind of cool to be able to tie those two things together and how each initiative and program has been able to provide more opportunities for people as well.

Right. So, I mean, I've heard of visualization and affirmations, and it's almost like you guys are giving it a more tangible material thing through art, which is therapeutic in itself. So marrying the two is incredible to hear. I know when I was young, my mom made me write some stuff that I didn't like on a piece of paper and took me to the river and we threw it in there and said goodbye to it. So it sort of reminds me of that, a more elaborate version of that.

Yeah. Thank you

for sharing.

That's so cool. I love that she did that. It's it is similar. It's like getting rid of like writing it out, confronting the beliefs and like uncomfortable and then getting rid of it and replacing it with positive. I love that.

Yeah. Yeah. Especially because like in different like therapeutic modalities, we talk about like letting go, but like how and what does that look like? So being able to actually kind of do it in a really like tangible way, like even writing it down and taking it to the river or ripping it up or whatever it might be and throwing paint at the words, right? It's a, it's a cool process that allows people to actually sort of live it.

And then there is a tangible piece of art that's in each of the programs that kind of shows, like represents this process of reclaiming these words and, taking them power away from them and then what they actually want their community to be seen as and represented by.

That's such a powerful metaphor visually and emotionally. Before we wrap up, I'd love to hear what's next for the brain training program. What new directions or expansions are you most excited about for the future of brain training? Are there any partnerships, research projects, or new tools you're developing? And how do you plan to keep the program participant centered as it grows?

So we definitely are wanting to develop more peer support roles within the program itself. And an area to like expand and keep the program going is we're hoping to train more of the staff within post mental health so that the program itself has like a broader reach within the organization right now. The goal is to eventually be able to provide to more community members outside of Coast Mental Health, but we're not quite at that point yet, but definitely more staff training, more peer support.

Yeah, we have, we have some peer support workers that, practicum students have been shadowing some of our groups. And so we're partnering with a lot of the peer support training right now. And we do a monthly, like we do a workshop with the peer support training as their curriculum. So we're hoping to train more peer support workers and also staff to eventually reach more people because for the past three years, it's still only been the three of us and we are trying to reach more groups and hopefully kind of increase the impact that brand training can have because it is such a cool program, I believe. Yeah.

Yeah. Ideally, I think we'd want to expand the accessibility of the program because a lot of, like, the cognitive remediation programs aren't necessarily super accessible right now. I know that one individual that I work with had a brain injury through sepsis and trying to find a rehabilitation program that would specifically focus on the the brain was really difficult and was really inaccessible, whether that was, like, cost wise or, like, location wise, things like that. Right? And a lot of the programs have very specific intake criteria.

So one of the things that's really cool about Coast is the population that we're working with. We don't have like an intake criteria. We don't have anybody that we rule out. So again, with like meeting people where they're at, some of the programs that we go to, people are in active addiction and we're not saying, no, you can't participate in this. We're just meeting them where they're at.

And that might be, okay, let's play Scrabble today. Let's just build relationship.

Yeah. It's breaking down barriers to access to care. So breaking down anything that might stop people from receiving help or even things like making it so that the content we deliver is accessible. If it's not going to be sitting down at a computer, maybe we do play games. And it's all about being flexible.

And that's, I guess, the person centered piece is we're hoping to kind of receive more feedback and continue to improve on how we can deliver it. And there's so many different ways. Like, there's an unlimited amount of ways that you can practice these strategies or teach these strategies. It doesn't have to be in one way. We did a research study looking at the program and kind of asking clients and what works and what do you feel the benefits have been.

So we have a lot of understanding from that. And so hopefully we're gonna grow from that and continue to, I guess, create a space where people can kind of tell us what's working and what's not.

And finally, to bring it full circle, if you could see one shift in how society views cognitive challenges or mental illness, what would it be? What role do programs like yours play in shifting that narrative? How can listeners or the broader public contribute to that change?

I think one thing that we've talked about that we would love to see a change in is like society's perception of mental illness and things that they maybe don't experience themselves. Like maybe people are seeing things that other people aren't seeing or hearing things that other people aren't hearing, or they're experiencing symptoms of like a brain injury or cognitive challenges and somebody so maybe they're acting a little bit differently from what somebody would maybe expect. And to minimize and to take away from that fear response. I think that would be like one of the biggest changes that we would love to see. Right.

And taking away the idea that, or changing the idea that and belief that a mental illness, it's like a weakness or that people have fixed limitations. Right? Because the idea of recovery being more on a spectrum instead of it has to look a certain way.

Yeah. I think that changing the view from there's a right way to live and there's a right way to exist. There's a wrong way and taking away judgments because we, all of our brains are so different and there's no right or wrong way to exist in this world. People see something that's different from them and the way that they think or the way that they feel. That judgment piece can be really harmful.

So I think just being more accepting and more open to just hearing from other people and hearing about what your different experiences are without that fear or judgment or connotation of this is good or bad because everybody's just different and there is no right way to do it. Yeah.

I think we'd love to see more curiosity about other people's like lived experiences. What has that been like? More compassion and understanding, more inclusion, really.

And another another thing I think that would be really impactful for for people to think about the way our brains work is that our brains are constantly evolving and growing, and there's never it's never too late to try to change a habit or to change the way you think. So our brains have the capacity to change and grow over the course of our lifetime. It's not just when we're young and we can constantly grow new neural connections. So being able to think of, think of ourselves as constantly evolving and that it's never too late to try to change the way that you exist or the way you think.

Yeah. And I think that the role that the program serves in shifting that narrative towards that is definitely through, like, a greater understanding of neuroplasticity and that people do have the capacity for change and for growth and for learning new things no matter where they're at or what their challenges might be. And that one thing that I learned even for myself in learning more about cognitive remediation was helping, like, contextualize somebody's, like, symptoms or behaviors that they might be experiencing. So if somebody is suffering from schizophrenia, there's a lot of cognitive symptoms that go along with that, but people tend to focus more so on the symptoms of, like, hallucinations, delusions, like things like that. But what about the fact that somebody's cognition has been impacted and then then how that shows up for them?

Right? So people get referred to as, like, lazy because maybe they're not able to maintain their, like hygiene as well. Actually that could be that there's something going on with their executive functioning. Right. Or with depression, people experience sort of like brain fog, which impacts like memory and attention and things like that as well.

So instead of, again, somebody just like not paying attention because they don't care or again, like they're lazy, they're whatever the words might be. It's shifting the narrative to, like, okay. Well, like, somebody's memory is being impacted by this. So what are some strategies that, like, would help them through those times? Right?

Same thing with anxiety. I mean, if you're experiencing anxiety, it's harder to focus and pay attention as well. Right? So like, are some tools and some strengths? So being able to like shift the narrative from what's wrong with you to what have your experience has been.

And that shift can be done through one on one work. But also these group discussions and things like this coming on this podcast and just talking about it and creating more conversation to validate and normalize everyone's experience and kind of take away that shame that might come with having a hard time with keeping up with life or memorizing things. It's stripping the shame away and having more open conversations about what's going on for me, what are the challenges I'm having, and how can I make it easier for myself? Yeah.

And like how the listeners or broader public can contribute to that change, think is, again, like we were saying before, with, like, curiosity and openness and self learning and wanting to, like, know more about other people's experiences and what that might be like and being able to, like, seek the information to provide a greater understanding of that instead of just, like, a fear based response from what the media might be representing. Yeah. Getting away

from black and white thinking and thinking about things in a nuanced way that there are many ways to exist and being curious about each other and ourselves, like what is working for me and what isn't, being honest about, you know, what struggles do I have and taking away the shame when we're thinking about ourselves as well.

Yeah, and this might be a bit of a shameless plug, but also being able to contribute to programs like ours so we can keep providing these opportunities for people as well, right? Because our program is 100 donor funded.

Thank you so much, Amy and Janelle, for coming over.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate this and it's so cool, this platform you've created. You're doing a lot of the work that we're talking about right now by just having these conversations.

Thank you so much to the team from Coast Mental Health's Brain Training Program for joining us today and for the powerful work you do every day to help people reclaim confidence, strengthen cognitive skills and reconnect with the community. If there's one takeaway from today's conversation, it's this. Our brains are capable of change. Growth isn't just possible. It's already happening in small meaningful ways every time we use a new strategy.

Reach out for support or reframe how we see ourselves.

Whether you've experienced cognitive challenges, supported someone who has or are simply curious about how we learn and adapt, we hope this episode reminded you that you are not alone and that healing doesn't have to look like a solo journey.

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If you have any questions, ideas, or stories you'd like to share, feel free to contact us. Our web site is neurodiversityvoices.com. Please fill out our listener survey form. We'd love to hear from you.

Till next time, take care, stay curious, and keep celebrating the beauty of diverse minds.

Thanks for listening to the Neurodiversity Voices podcast.