Paul Cruz (00:00)
Thank you for tuning into the Neurodiversity Voices Podcast. We are thrilled to have you here. My name is Paul Cruz and I'm your host for this episode alongside my co-host, Karen Habashi. We want to introduce to you our guest speaker, Sarah Russell. Sarah is from Connecticut, USA, a sociologist by profession.
formerly founding producer and co-host of the ADHD Skills Lab, an anti-racist AuDHD coach, and currently the host and podcast producer of the ND Report podcast, also called the Neurodivergent Report podcast.
We are honoured to have Sara with us today. Welcome, Sara.
Sarah Russell (00:39)
Thank you so much for having me. It's really an honour to be here.
Honestly, excited. I remember seeing some of your early ads for when you even before you started putting out any episodes. And so yeah, this feels wonderful to be launching our shows together.
Paul Cruz (00:57)
So what inspired you to create your podcasts and what inspired you to create the neurodivergent report and the ADHD skills lab podcast.
Sarah Russell (01:09)
Yeah, well, I created the NeuroDivergent Report because I learned to love podcasting. When I was sort of recruited for the ADHD Skills Lab podcast, you know, it was me and another co-host at the time. We tried to take on different sort of roles and...
Paul Cruz (01:18)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Russell (01:31)
I had previously been sort of a wallflower, not really ever made a video for social media, that sort of thing. But over the last two years of reading research papers and learning how to give that information back to people in ways that they can use and understand, I learned to love that. And I...
Yeah, feel like, so now I feel like I'm in showbiz for myself, you know, sort of creating a show that's focused on
what I love about neurodivergence.
That's all of us.
Paul Cruz (02:03)
what about.
your insights into your transition from working with unconventional organizations to independent podcasting.
Sarah Russell (02:13)
Yeah, so I really enjoyed my time at unconventional organization. But sort of as most businesses do, it began to evolve and we sort of diverged in the woods. I began to focus more on sort of somatic healing and they continued in a very like executive functioning direction.
yeah. And so I, I'd love to talk about both and I'd love the freedom to talk about both. So that's really why, I'm sort of an independent podcaster now.
Paul Cruz (02:52)
How about the role of societal environment in shaping your podcast themes?
Sarah Russell (02:57)
I think that psychology has the tendency to think just about the brain and the biology. And what we're starting to see now with the neurodivergence movement is more of an understanding of the social factors that contribute to someone looking weird. You know, sort of the difference between someone looking crazy and just looking
tired or sort of like how they're pathologized based on how they look or how they present.
it's important to explore that a little bit more, I think, than psychology currently does.
Karen Habashi (03:33)
So Before we discuss more about your podcast, can you explain more to our listener what is the deviance and the sociology expertise? Because,
Some people might not understand what that is and how it works on
Sarah Russell (03:46)
Yeah, absolutely. I always forget when I have niche knowledge. So sociology very basically is the study of society. So like basically the study of how we as people all work in groups, organizing groups. And deviance is sort of what we call someone who
doesn't adhere to the social norms, who doesn't, someone who doesn't sort of conform or fit the model that they're given. Now there might be, anyway, so deviance is sort of a social construct, really just talking about like the outliers of society.
I really love when I learned about neurodivergence as a term. It's been around for a lot longer than I knew about it.
because it really takes the psychology and the deviance and it tries to blend it together.
Yeah, it tries to talk about both the physical reasons why someone might behave or feel differently. But then also like the social factors, the social resources that someone might have and then contribute to their presentation or their symptoms, quote unquote, or like their emotions, how they show emotion.
Yeah, so I just love being able to bring like that.
focus on social constructs, sort of being like, at some point we all agreed that this was okay and this was not okay. And back then we couldn't see inside brains to know if there was a valid or like an actual reason why people were doing that. And so we could probably stop judging.
Everybody else. I don't know. I'm rambling. I'm gonna stop talking now
Karen Habashi (05:26)
No, it's good to get your thoughts out. It's what this podcast is about. So how did this experience help you with your own diagnosis and also with the podcast?
Sarah Russell (05:39)
Yeah, so I didn't receive an ADHD diagnosis until sort of 2019 maybe. So I already knew about sociology and deviance. I think it's really helped me to be more accepting, more compassionate for myself to realize that there's a reason that I cannot control.
for why I am the way I am. People always said to me like, oh, you're so dramatic. Like you're just sensitive. And as it turns out, I am just extra sensitive. Like my nervous system is just so sensitive and there's nothing I can do to change that as far as I'm aware. So yeah, it really was sort of like a process of grieving that.
You know, like, I've looked for so long to get better, but like, I could have just loved how I was this whole time.
Yeah, I think before I had my ADHD diagnosis, sort of when I was a kid, my mom just said that we were a weird family. And I was like, okay, yeah, totally. Like, you're weird. Totally. We must just be weird. But I didn't have the words ADHD. didn't know, you know, I knew like depression and alcoholic and stuff like that.
Again, I think what I knew about mental health as a kid was very much pathologizing someone else, you know, like other people judging how somebody else's mental health was presenting. So I guess from the very earliest view,
I was taught to pathologize bad behavior. Yeah, or deviance in general. But basically my podcast exists to show that, yeah, there's a little bit of uncomfortable like stuff in the deviance world, but also there's some beautiful stuff in the deviance world. And so we can just learn to love each other and learn to
show our differences, or I mean, just show our differences, but also show our similarities, because sometimes we're afraid to even be who we are, because we don't want to be judged, so we never truly are loved. Anyway, I'm rambling again.
Karen Habashi (07:46)
No,
you're actually making a lot of important points, like the grief you had that, I could have loved myself all along, but I was taught to think I shouldn't accept this or be comfortable with this. So this is something I think a lot of people would love to explore more. how, if you knew back then since an early age that this is
who you are and it's okay and to love yourself with the difference that you might have, how would you think that would have changed or impacted your life differently?
Sarah Russell (08:17)
I can only guess, but...
I probably wouldn't have developed so many poor coping mechanisms. I don't drink anymore because it makes me very dizzy. have POTS as well, but I used to do everything in excess. With ADHD, I struggle with balance. So everything is to the max. I did some...
very troubling behaviors when I was a teenager and I can't believe I got away with it. I'm lucky to be alive.
And so I think if I had known that...
I needed something different. You get all that basic advice like, exercise, have friends, go get a hobby. And me, I always did those things and people like me, I've had friends, but I also have always been acutely aware that I am different than them and that they don't really understand why I am the way I am, but they love me.
So in that way, I've been very lucky to have people who love me and show me that they love me, but I really needed to love me sooner.
And I can only assume that I would have if I had known. I don't know, maybe not. Maybe I wouldn't be so resilient.
Karen Habashi (09:31)
Wow.
Yeah,
that's true. But wow, that's a beautiful thing too. You know, that you would love yourself more. But I think now that you're opening about this and showing your vulnerability, you're also giving a chance to people to embrace their own strengths and their own differences and to love themselves. And I hope now you came to a point where you feel happy with yourself as
Sarah Russell (09:56)
Absolutely.
Karen Habashi (10:00)
from what I hear that you are at that point.
Sarah Russell (10:03)
am very much so. It has been a journey. But I am genuinely happy with the person that I've become. And I don't think I could have said that 20 years ago, honestly.
Karen Habashi (10:15)
Thank you.
The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast (10:15)
so Sarah, what personal experiences have shaped your journey as a creator and coach and...
any similarities between you and your child observations during your child's diagnosis process and just any reflections on your own experiences with ADHD and attachment issues.
Sarah Russell (10:37)
Yeah.
Hmm. Okay. So my child, really started suspecting that my child might have ADHD around kindergarten. And I know that that might even seem young to you. But just the things that he would come home and tell me about sort of being exhausted from having to behave all day. And then really just, I think,
struggling, like always hearing the same things from his teachers. You know, he struggles to be in his seat. He talks to everybody that he's around. This child would do so good if only they could focus during independent work time. And it was just like shell shock of reading my own like report cards over the years.
But since I was a girl, it was always sort of explained away as, just a chatterbox, know, you know, just a teacher's pet. I was very well behaved otherwise. it didn't get caught by my adults, but I started to pay attention. Cause I also remembered that my younger brother had been diagnosed with ADHD when we were kids, but my mom didn't want to mitigate him.
And he really struggled through high school and through college.
So I don't, anyway, so I didn't want to watch that movie again, so to speak. I wanted my child to get help. So I brought them in. We went to see his pediatrician and I basically was just like, I think my kid has ADHD. This is all of the reasons why. And she just looked at me and was like, wow, I wish all parents came in and like,
knew how to self advocate for their kids because I had a ton of information. I pretty much became an ADHD coach so I could help my kid be more successful. And now I have a toddler who's about to be evaluated and diagnosed with autism. And so I'm going to have to become an autism coach as well so I can help that person too.
Very exciting.
Karen Habashi (12:39)
How does your love for research shape the way you approach podcasting and coaching?
Sarah Russell (12:44)
I think it's extremely important to have the most evidence-based information. And unfortunately, by the time information gets from the research labs to public knowledge or even doctor's knowledge, it's already been sort of 10 years. The research is already outdated. So basically I...
I read papers that came out last week and I sort of talk about them and I distill them and I share that information with my listeners. I do the same thing for my coaching clients. I'll be in a much more personalized way. Yeah, with my coaching clients, I really like to take a super personal approach.
Like if you were to ask me about my method, I would be like, I asked a lot of questions. It's an interrogation at first, sort of about like different executive functioning stuff, different emotional regulation stuff, and also your coping and your tools. And then from there, we sort of talk about what you're looking for. But my podcast is really just about establishing sort of a place to go and learn about
neurodivergence research, and also hear stories from neurodivergent people.
The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast (13:56)
So how do platforms like LinkedIn, Instagram and your website contribute to your outreach and engagement?
Sarah Russell (14:02)
So I don't have a super strict marketing like routine. I think I really do well with fly by the seat of the dopamine sort of like social media posting. So I do a lot of that. I'm very lucky to have a LinkedIn account that is 10 years old this year. So while I don't have a ton of connections, it's extremely like
And so I've been using that to network. I've been meeting some incredible people. Instagram has been great, and YouTube for that matter, have been great for posting short reels of my episodes so that I can sort of reuse content and try to find some new friends on the internet.
Karen Habashi (14:42)
So for anyone who wants to start a podcast focused on mental health or neurodivergence, what are the things that you would advise them to do?
Sarah Russell (14:52)
Do not panic. There are a lot of different options for software and platforms. There are very flashy offers, AI tools, et cetera. But to get started, you only need free tools, okay? You pretty much could get by with a free Riverside account.
and a Spotify for creators account for a little while, depending on how much you want to post, basically. But beyond that also, network. Use the social media account that you're posting on. Find new friends and come talk to us, because we love getting new guest inquiries just like, hey.
I saw you on social media and I want to come meet you. I love that. Anyway, I don't know.
The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast (15:40)
what are your aspirations for your podcasts and coaching work in the next few years, such as your art therapy and your chronic illness advocacy?
Sarah Russell (15:50)
My main goal is to manage my own health and my own chronic physical conditions because I have ADHD, but I also have sort of autoimmune conditions like my thyroid disorder, which requires very delicate balance. And so if I push myself too hard, I'll get sick.
If I eat the wrong thing, I get sick. Too much, too little, So finding balance, like their journey to the medium. I used to hate how I was so plain. You know, I have brown hair, brown eyes, my name is Sarah Russell. I mean, that is so boring, but now...
I that I'm very unique in lots of other ways and so I'm actually not plain at all.
Also, so yeah, pretty much that's my spiel on avoiding burnout. But some of my, like you mentioned art therapy and I, okay, I'm just gonna say I am not an artist, but I do make art. I love to color in little coloring books. I love to make little knitting.
Basically anything that works both of your hands at the same time is called bilateral stimulation. And it's really calming for the vagus nerve and the autonomic nervous system. So like if you're feeling super stressed, do some freaking spirals with your hands. And you're gonna start feeling better. Hey, that looked like stimming, didn't it? Interesting, hmm, crazy.
Sorry. Sorry listeners who couldn't see that.
Karen Habashi (17:16)
So if we want to leave our listeners with one key takeaway about embracing neurodivergence, what would that be?
Sarah Russell (17:25)
For the last seven years, I have been answering this question in the same way and leaving people with pretty much my ultimate mantra. And I think it's gonna make sense given some of the other things that we've talked about today, but that is if your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete. And so I leave that for all you fellow people pleasers and perfectionists.
Do not self-sabotage into burnout. Come meet your like-minded friends. We're all around you on the internet.
The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast (17:53)
So thank you very So to wrap this up, where can we find you on the internet and your social media podcast or your broadcast platforms?
Sarah Russell (18:14)
Yeah, so you can find me at my website, is ndreportpod.com. You can also follow me on like all of the socials, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. I'm at ndreportpod on all of them. I'm even on Blue Sky for now. I have a sub stack with the same name.
Yeah, really a one-stop shop ND report pod. You'll also be able to find my personal website sort of through that. So if you want to, you know, come meet me, come book a meeting, come be on my podcast, I'd be super excited to hear from you. Thank you so much for having me and to everyone who's listening, thank you for being here.
The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast (18:53)
you
Karen Habashi (18:55)
Thank you so much, Sarah.
The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast (18:56)
Thank you, Sarah.
